When most people think of Girl Scouts they think of camping and cookies. As adult members of Girl Scouts we know that cookies support our camps--and those my age can remember selling cookies to buy a camp. Unfortunately, today many councils are selling one or more of their camps, often with promises to use the money to improve the remaining camps.
The good news is that most people who replied to my survey said it was true that their council had great camps (442/503). 364 approved of the way their council handled properties and 136 did not. If you want to know what type of people responded to the survey, see the first post in this series.
Too Hot?
I was honestly shocked at the negative reaction I got when I posted the survey. People accused me of being biased and wondered what my agenda was. Honestly, I don't have one. They seemed to take offense at my questions about air conditioning and heat at camps, and I can see that being a tough question for councils.
After Hurricane Katrina in 2005, power company workers were housed at one of my council's camps and for some reason those electrical workers didn't like not having air conditioning in Louisiana in September so they solved that problem in several of the units at our camp. Afterwards, we were told that the air conditioning was there until it broke; that the council did not have the money to fix or replace it. Today's camp reservation form still shows those units as air conditioned (I've never been to them, I don't know how well it works). Evidently they found the money to keep the air conditioning working.
I'm old as dirt and went to school in Mississippi when no schools were air conditioned. I went to resident camp without air conditioning. I know it is survivable, but I also know that my daughters wanted nothing to do with going to camp without air conditioning. I was curious about whether other councils had decided to air condition at least some of their units, and whether in the north, heated units were common. I also wondered if my girls were normal. 20 people said their daughters did not want to attend resident camp due to lack of air conditioning. 475 marked that question false. 150 people said their council has air conditioned dorms for summer camp; 338 said they did not. I'd be really curious to know whether having climate controlled buildings is more a matter of geography or a matter of council policy.
Too Cold?
I asked: " Focusing strictly on the weather, and not conflicts with holidays etc., if I offered your troop a free trip to any Girl Scout camp in your council in December, January or February, would you accept?" 16.4% of those who responded said yes, that their troop was prepared for cold weather camping. 11.3% said yes, that it never really gets all that cold. 56% said that their council had facilities that would be safe for inexperienced campers, no matter the weather. 6.7% said there were no facilities where they would feel safe taking the girls at that time of year. 9.5% just rejected being outside that time of year.
302 people said their council had plenty of buildings that were heated in the winter, 180 did not.
Facilities
One thing I've always liked about Girl Scout camps is the available facilities. When my son was in Cub Scouts, camping meant a tent, a wagon, an ice chest and sleeping bags and personal gear. Our council camps have cabins and platform tents along with refrigerators and stoves. Yea, I'll admit it, I'm not into roughing it and I'm glad I don't have to store troop camping gear. I asked folks whether their council camps had these things, and % those who responded positively to each is listed below:
- Heat 74.1%
- Air conditioning 57.1%
- Cots or bunks with mattresses 94.7%
- Cabins 93.7%
- Platform Tents 83.45%
- Regular Tents 37.4%
- Kitchens with stoves and refrigerators 83.4%
- Dining halls with cooking staff available 52%
- Showers and sinks in the same building as the beds--no need to go outside 65.4%
- Wi-fi 14%
- A craft building with supplies 46%
- A computer center 1.4%
- Horses 43.9%
- Swimming pool 64.4%
- Swimming area in a lake or river 51.6%
- Wading in a river or stream 33%
- Climbing wall 46%
- Zip line 41.5%
- Ropes Course 60.1%
- Canoeing 77.5%
- Sailing 15.8%
- Rowboats 24.1%
- Archery 93.1%
- Slingshots 30.6%
- Tomahawks 21.9%
- Ice Skating 3.4%
- Snow Skiing 6.1%
- Hiking Trails 85%
- No plumbed toilets, outhouses only 21.7%
- Indoor fireplaces 53.6%
- Outdoor fire circles 91.7%
- BBQ pits 24.5%
Other amenities mentioned were kayaking, fishing, gaga ball, snow shoeing, sprinklers, paddle boards, and an axe yard.
My Comments
I'm glad I'm not the one who has to make decisions about camps. While outdoor enthusiasts may decry "glamping" and say that girls need more chance to get dirty and rough it, the reality is that our numbers are heavily skewed toward very young girls and the number of leaders willing to take such young kids to anyplace too rustic is limited. On the other hand, the more comfort-based improvements we make to camps, the more they cost not only to build but to operate. You also run the very real possibility that a girl's only "camping " experience is an overnight in a heated or air conditioned dorm, eating food cooked in a kitchen, perhaps even by a paid kitchen staff.
I was pleased to see the wide variety of facilities offered at Girl Scout camps. The number with horses was a pleasant surprise, as I know they are expensive to own and feed. My council said each of our horses costs $1500 per year to support, and I know my girls have loved the riding program, which is something I have not been able to duplicate with an outside vendor.
Your Comments
Here are some comments people left
- Our council has a wide variety of camping facilities across the entire council. We have 6 camp properties. Pre-merger we did have 8. One was sold off, one was sold, but we do still have access to use. Others have been improved and added amenities. Our council is committed to providing quality outdoor programming.
- Our new camp is just starting to be built. Plans for a multitude of activities in the process to be added. Our old camp was closed by the BLM and we can use day only, no more overnight
- Our SU prefers to camp at the YMCA camps. Cleaner facilities (by FAR), more activities available, their staff lead all activities
- our girls suffered the misfortune of having our council sell our girl scout house out from under us, leaving our troops with no meeting spaces or local place to "camp" if we didn't want to drive the hour North or South to the closest GS camp ground. The girl Scout properties definitely help the parents feel at ease because no one is there unless they belong (ie no strangers). Also, while our council has 2 camp grounds, neither of them offer sleep away summer camp programs.
- To clarify, council has 3 (or 2 1/2, lol) camps; mostly with cabins. The central, (site of resident camp) has mostly cabins, some with heat, one with air conditioning. Plumbing, mostly in a bathhouse, a few with in-the-cabin facilities. There are only a few platform tents left at any of the camps. You can bring your own tents to pitch, but none are available to use. Most troops camp only once or twice a year. Some probably don’t at all.
- I get the impression that you prefer glamping.
- They are selling off camps for development in our area. Girl Scouts are getting a BAD name in the process. My troop has opted to camp at YMCA camps. I sent my daughter to resident camp this year and she came back with Covid, as did everyone in her unit. What a fiasco. Contact tracing was slow and awful. They called us on the last day of quarantine to tell us to quarantine. Also, there NEEDS to be adults in cabins at all times. So many girls are exploring their sexuality and deciding they now like girls and are coming out. Camp should be about eating bugs, canoeing, learning songs, and making friends, not talking about sex and shunning others the whole time.
- I attended a 3 night volunteer led Girlscout camp at Council camp property this past summer. I feel having at least one campfire and s’mores would have been offered as an activity during the week. None of the approximate 55 girls had the opportunity to sit around a campfire.
- Questions are clearly biased
- I was looking at camping but we would have to pay a fee for 4pm-10am, and another for 11am- 3pm equalling about $100!! I found out I can do 1pm- 10am at a State Park for $17!! My Council does do Teen Escape from Fri night until 10am Sunday with activities and food for $60 per girl which I think is worth it.
- The survey would not allow me to select state parks or platform tents which both were buttons I would have selected. Also, this survey seems to be written from a heavily biased standpoint. Usually, there is more of an attempt made with a survey to make any bias less obvious.
- This survey seems incredibly biased, as did your last one.
- "I am concerned and disappointed that so many camps have been and are continuing to be sold, especially some older camps with a rich history. the council I grew up in used to have multiple camps and had 4 when I was a girl. Now they only have one camp. That camp is nice and has good facilities now, better than when I was a girl. But it is far for some people to go to camp. At least that council still offers resident camp. My current council has 3 camps and the 2 nearby camps run many programs during the year and as summer day camps. But there is a beautiful camp that used to be run as a resident camp and no longer is. It is farther away (but only about 2 hours or less from most of the council) but nto that far for resident camp. I also feel like leaders don't get as good training (including outdoor training) now as when my mom was a leader in the 70s and 80s. "
- I think all girls should be encouraged to camp. We are often stereotyped as princesses that can't handle or don't wish to know about the outdoors. I have a large multilevel troop and my highest attendance is when we are hiking, camping, or other outdoor activities.
- We are a trailblazer troop and therefore are always camping in and out of our local council. We like to stay at other GS properties and Tate and national parks, but almost always stay in tents.
- Definitely think that all councils should have camping activities available all year round and in line with their national outdoor progression chart
- From what I read my Council has the best camps. We only close during hunting season as we are next to a state park. Each of our camps is unique and our girls appreciate what each has to offer.
- Regarding the question about what facilities our camps offer ... I am unclear whether you meant offered for individual troop rentals, or offered at resident camps. Some of the items are available only during resident camps, or with a trained facilitator (but training isn't offered, so that makes them unavailable for rental use).
- Our council owns 7 camps at present and facilities available vary greatly between camps and even within the camps themselves. Our troop are heavy users, we have been to all 7 camps, and in 2021 between June and December will have been at 5. Right now camps are very busy qs troops are struggling to secure our normal meeting locations during covid. We're in a 4 season climate, all buildings are heated except some rustic cabins and yurts. Most properties have a lodge with A/C and wifi. Only 5 of our 21 girls have been to resident camp; 2 of those 5 have been on wilderness trips offered by the council. The council has sold off chunks of at least 3 of the camps in the past 10 years that I am aware of, 1and attempted to sell one of those completely but a deed restriction of some kind made this fall through, and the camp is not currently posted for sale. There is concern among local leaders that they may sell some of the camps in coming years, especially as two have taken damage in storms in 2019 and 2021.
- Its difficult to get a reservation with so many troops. Even with 6 camps our council has to use the lottery system. Many leaders use other camps
- Our council was forced to join with 2 other councils. Since that merger, the lead outdoor person has tried everything she can to sell off or not to do the upkeep on any camp other than the one in her "original" council. Events are hardly held at the largest, most equipped camp. In fact, she has now sold off the horse portion of that camp and we have heard that she intends to sell off the main part of the camp. It's DISGUSTING to those of us in the largest area of this council!! Outdoor activities are NOT encouraged by these people, in fact they cringe if they are even asked to go out to one of the camps!!!
- The girl scout camps are cheap but need some love. I'd prefer not to drive more than an hour to camp.
- We love our council camps. The staff is awesome and the girls have an opportunity to experience girl-led in a new way. There are a couple of sleepaway summer camps nearby that are faith based and not all of our girls are religious so our council camps give them an opportunity to do all the camp activities without being indoctrinated.
- Eastern Missouri council is amazing with their camps and should be used as a model for other councils.
- GSEP has several facilities for girls to camp. I take my troop to a local state park so my parents can come as well since I have daisies and brownies that have never camped before. The GS camp provide space for day activities, overnights, and residential camps. They are really an important part of GS. More emphasis should be put on Camping and outdoor skills.
- My council sold 2 camps, one of which my troop helped purchase when I was a child. The anger was sole crushing but now I just assume they will always do what suits them to pay their outrageous salaries.
- Now days, the outdoor program is only as good as the council makes it. I am a retired GS outdoor program manager for 45+ years. I was also a Leader, trainer, etc, etc at another . council. My girls did it all as well as outdoor. I had a $3 mil budget. Not anymore. One of the reasons I retired was I didn't like the way GSUSA was managing the total program. They have no clue what the girls want and still don't. They don't wants a school like program. I have to admit that in some respects the GS program sucked the life out of me. I have nothing more to give. Working in a GS council is tough but can be rewarding. The biggest mistake they made as getting rid of the legacy adults. The ones who knew that the traditions and went above and beyond for the girls These are the adults the councils relied on for cookies, training, programs, outdoor. All of a sudden the legacy volunteers are no longer wanted or needed. Once a GS always a GS. I miss it but not at the expense of others. I am not a dis gruntal staff person. I have been in GS since I was a Pixie (age 4). Time moves on. Things change. Heck! I'm thankful the GS program still exists. I trust it will go on forever for the girls I hope they start hiring GS experienced adults. Just mt thoughts! .
In Conclusion
This post is long enough. I'll do another one about resident camp. Feel free to comment as desired. Thanks to those who participated in the survey.
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