I recently ran a survey, which I publicized on several Facebook groups for Girl Scout leaders, about Girl Scout Camps and camping. The reason this topic came to my mind is that the camp closing bug hit my council this year. One of our three camps was closed and sold.
Besides selling the camp, our council is selling the office buildings that were headquarters for the two legacy councils and plans to get space in a high profile retail space, I'm guessing right off the interstate between the two major cities. They plan a capital campaign to improve the remaining camps and, I guess to create this new space.
Who Am I?
I am sixty years old, mom of two girls who were Girl Scouts into high school. I took my older daughter's troop camping when I was six months pregnant and I believe camping is a major factor that sets Girl Scouts apart from other organizations. As a leader I've tried to offer at least one and usually two camping trips per year.
I was a Junior Girl Scout for three years as a girl and attended resident camp one summer, which was one of the highlights of my childhood. On the other hand, my daughters were totally uninterested in spending time in the summer at camp with no air conditioning.
I'll admit to having no interest in primitive camping and will say that one thing I liked better about Girl Scout camping vs camping with my son's Cub Scout pack was that the Girl Scout Camps were so well equipped--we didn't have to haul all that stuff up there, or figure out what to do with it when we got home. This year one of my moms is doing the outdoor training so she can take over leading camping trips. I love campfires but not camp cots.
Who Answered My Survey?
About 91% of the 513 people who responded to my survey identified themselves as Girl Scout leaders. 7% were other Girl Scout volunteers, and I had four responses from Girl Scout staff. 6 parents who were not staff members or volunteers also answered.
Just over half of those who responded said they were 41-55 years old. 34% were in their 30's , 13% were over 55 and only 2% were under 30.
81% had been adult Girl Scouts for more than three years. Almost 18 percent had served 1-3 years and 6 new leaders responded.
18% had not been Girl Scouts as children. 12.5% had been Daisies, 66% had been Brownies, 57% Juniors, 32% Cadettes and 25% were Seniors/high school Girl Scouts.
374 of those who responded said they camped outside of Girl Scouts, 135 said they did not. 327 agreed that camping is what makes the Girl Scout program unique, 186 disagreed with that statement.
My surveys usually include general questions like this so that readers can come to some conclusions about how representative my sample is. I make no representation that it is anywhere near random.
How Important Is Camping to Girl Scouts?
The term "Girl Scouts" refers to a national organization that sets policies and creates program materials, to local councils which own and operate properties and recruit and train leaders and girls, to the troops to which most girl members belong and to individual members, both adults and girls. I asked how important people thought each of those levels considered camping to be, on a scale of 1-5, with 1 being the least important. Considering all the criticism I hear about GSUSA and outdoor programming, I'm surprised as many people as did gave it 4 and 5. I'm not a bit surprised that only 24 people thought Girl Scouts should get out the the business of running camps, whereas 485 marked that statement "false".
Comments From Those Responding
At the end of the survey, I gave those responding a chance to say whatever they wanted to. On the importance of camping, people said:
I don’t know the goal of this survey. I don’t think camping is for everyone and it may not be the focus of some troops. Our girls love camping and we make it a priority to do it at least once a year. It is a highlight but not the reason these girls do Girl Scouts. As for our councils camp it is a great place in a beautiful setting that provides a good experience for girls. My girls have gone it’s not their person favorite resident camp in our area but they had a great time every time they went.
Definitely think Girl Scouts need to embrace its roots and focus on outdoor adventures and not so much of this computer/Stem/coding stuff. Not that those subjects aren’t worth learning, but GS needs to remember why JGL started this- to get girls outside! Camping is definitely integral to that mission.
National doesn't value outdoor programming as much as it should. No one communicates the benefits of camping beyond the surface nature appreciation. A large part of the value is the opportunity to develop self-confidence, plan & carry out programming & meals for themselves, work as a group on a limited basis to benefit their own group which helps them build skills that they will eventually use to be successful citizens and leaders and adults in the future. Maybe the organization at local & national level,--and even parents & volunteers--would appreciate the outdoor experience better if they saw the lasting benefits, and not just smoky meals and uncomfortable beds.
Not sure what this survey was really about. Is someone mad that there is not air conditioner in all locations? We have air conditioners in only certain cabins usually the ones that hold up to 50 people. Or is someone mad that they have to drive far to get to a camp? Because the car ride is an experience for the Scouts as well. Just seems like someone is upset because they don’t like what is offered in their council. I do feel as though Scouts should experience camping it is a right of passage for scouts. And I do think the daisies could do with it or without it. However we have a weekend camping trip in two weeks and my daisies are coming. We are going to do more than the zip, canoeing and archery. We will be having a cano fire and songs which makes memories for the Scouts and we will prob make swaps and work on our cabin camping, hiker, and eco friendly badges.
The outdoors is one of the pillars of Girl Scouting. All girls should at least have experience with all of the pillars in Girl Scouting. That’s what makes Girl Scouting unique - the breadth and variety of experiences.
I do not understand why the question is even being asked. Of course camp is important and worth Council sponsorship. Heat/AC/Flush toilets are all well and good, but roughing it is so good for a Scout's development of character, stamina, and confidence. Both options should be available. STEM has been pushed so much lately but I would like GSUSA to go back to more outdoor experiences and adventures.
I've always said camping made GS unique. I've had troops that loved outdoor camping and some that preferred just overnights indoors. The leader needs to take direction from the girls.
I believe camping is a vital part of the Girl Scout experience, but with only 2 camps in our council that are available, sometimes it is hard to find a time to go that works for our troop.
Importance of camping is a troop decision. Both girls and leader
I think offering camping and outdoor activities are an important part of the Girl Scout experience. Even if a troop shied away from outdoor activities, I would encourage them to try it. The only time I wouldn’t camp is if an entire older girl troop voted not to camp, but my large troop of CSAs love to camp.
I think the opportunity to go outside to a camp is very important for Girl Scouts to have. The younger Girl Scouts should be strongly encouraged to give it a try. If they decide it’s not something they want to do that’s fine! Also I prefer Girl Scout camps for the safety aspect. Only Girl Scouts are allowed on the property so I don’t need to worry as much about who is in the next campsite. Going to a KOA or other park doesn’t offer that.
I think camping can be important but GS can be what you want it to be, so if a troop never camps, that is okay. My troop is Brownie level and we plan to camp for the first time in the spring, Covid has been keeping us away from that and has also been keeping my daughter from camp, she only went the year after Kindergarten and then had it canceled due to Covid, but plans to do resident camp next summer.
As a Girl Scout 40 years ago and now having my own daughter in scouts I feel camp and the whole outdoor experience is important. And fun! There the girls learn so many gs traditions and gain so much guided independence. I also believe leaders and volunteers can create a similar experience in a backyard if a troop isn’t into overnight camping.
Camp Closings and Driving Distance
Unfortunately, my council is not the only one closing camps. I asked people how many camps their council had compare to ten years ago--and that if their council had merged in that time, to count the camps owned by the legacy councils. I should have included an "I don't know" choice, because only 471 of the 513 people who responded answered this question. 55.2% said they had the same number of camps as ten years ago; 16.6% said they had one fewer and 24.2% said they had more than one fewer. 4% said they had gained camps.
One complaint often voiced when camp closings are discussed on Facebook groups is the distance people will have to travel to utilize the camps their cookie money pays for. 15.6 percent said that the furthest anyone in their council would have to travel to get to the nearest Girl Scout camp is less than an hour. 43.5% said people could have to travel 1-2 hours to reach a Girl Scout camp. 28.5% said that at least some would have to travel 2-3 hours. 5% said some would have to drive over three hours, and that it affected a lot of girls. 5.2% said some had to drive over three hours, but that was just a few girls in remote areas who were used to traveling a long way to do anything.
Comments from Those Responding
The question about camping in my council during winter, there should be the option "no, I wouldn't camp in my council no matter the season". I do not like how my council got rid 5 camps and kept 1 that is 2.5 hours away from us, when 1 of them was 30 minutes away.
My Council only has one property. They sold the one that was within city limits many many years ago.
Tired of them selling off our camps. We are the largest council and my area has lost the most local camps. They are being sold off way under value. UGH Finding helpers to run archery, ropes course, climbing adventures in near impossible and very frustrating.
For some of these questions I wish you had ‘I don’t know’ as an option bc I didn’t know the answer to some but just picked something. For example I have no idea of how the number of council camps changed over the years.
Even though our camps for the most part have been closed due to covid, they are relatively nice. Some girls may have to travel for longer than 2 hours to the nearest camp but because of traffic.
Our council is selling or closing most of their properties. My girls love GS camps in summer but we have to go to a different council for anything other than troop camping ran by Leaders.
Our council is considered a "small" council due to number of girls enrolled. We cover one entire state and go into 2 other states. I'm at the northern tip of our council and 90 minutes from 2 camps. If I were to drive to the other end of our council it would take me 9 hours. It was hard to answer about things our council offers as we have many gs camps and there really is an option for everyone. The farthest someone would have to drive is just under 3 hours to get to a camp. Living in the area that I do, we are very blessed economically. We have 3 sleep away camps within 45 minutes with one being in our town. I love what all three have to offer, but still see the value in our girl scout camp. My daughter has not been to girl scout camp due to number restrictions and staffing problems.
I would love to use a GS facility, however they have closed the ones closest to me. So we opt for state parks locally.
Our Girl Scout council has four camps but the one that is within an hour of our area is on "rest." And aside from a zip line we cannot use the water there and there is really no other activities. Our other camp that I've been to is beautiful but too far away. As a leader it would seem easier to go to a different type of campground closer that has facilitators then having to take training which is hardly ever offered in small watercraft zipline archery etc. Or at least an area that's not a Girl Scout camp that actually has activities.
There are 4 camps in our council which covers 30 counties in PA. We really only use one because the others have non-potable water or are more than an hour away. We are starting to use state parks instead.
My Comments:
As I've said with other survey-derived posts, this blog is a hobby, something I do because I enjoy writing and enjoy having people read what I write. I run surveys sometimes because I like learning what other people think. I'm not a professional survey designer nor do I spend hours reviewing every question from every perspective to make sure it is unbiased. I do not claim that my results stand for anything more than what they are--a basically off-the-cuff survey of a non-random group of people who say they are involved in Girl Scouts.
The main thing I learned from the survey was from the comments on the Facebook groups where I posted the survey--well I didn't really "learn" it, I was pretty convinced of it already--namely that there is a population of adult Girl Scouts who feel passionately that camps are important and rise to protect them against any perceived threat--and I think that's a good thing.
This post has gotten too long so I'll write about the other results in another post. Thanks to those who participated.
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