Math In Nature Survey Results

 

I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my lengthy survey on the Math In Nature badges.  I wrote about these badges when they first came out and my troop did the Shapes In Nature badges for Brownies and Junior.  My posts will give you a good idea of what I think about the GSUSA plans.  

Purpose of the Survey

One subject that often comes up when discussing earning badges is what is necessary to do so.  I'll admit it, I'm a rule follower.  If the three choices in the GSUSA materials  all involve the  girl jumping off a 50 foot cliff without any safety equipment, (onto sand, water or snow) then I'm going to pass on the badge, I am not going to adapt it to looking at the cliff or jumping off a 5 inch step.  No, I don't think jumping off a 50 foot cliff is appropriate, fun etc., so I accept that this is not the badge for us. Yes this is an exaggeration but I've heard of "spirit of the badge" adaptations almost this radical. 

In my opinion if the badge sells well because "everyone" (or at least everyone with a brain in their head) is "adapting" the requirement (or skipping it completely) then GSUSA doesn't get the message about how bad it is.  Also, does a badge mean anything more than "we spent a meeting or two roughly focused on this topic"? Are badges only participation trophies or should they signify a level of knowledge?

I had two goals for this survey.  First I wanted to know people's opinions and experiences with the Math in Nature badges.  Second, I was trying to get a sense of what those who responded thought was required to earn these badges, given the VTK meeting plans.  

When I started writing this I had 82 responses to my survey and the numbers hadn't changed much in a while.  1 staff person responded, 18 co-leaders and 63 troop leaders.  Since 2021, when these badges came out, 50 had led Daisies, 64 Brownies and 44 had led Juniors.  

33.8% of those who responded had never led one of these badges.  25% led troops that had earned one of them, 11% had earned two, 16% had earned three and 13% had girls who had earned over three.  

43% did not plan to do any of these this year, 30% planned to do one this year and 27% were not sure. 

91 people responded to a question about how they earned these badges.  Of them, 4 said they followed the VTK plans pretty closely. 18 followed the printed brochure closely. 24 looked at the steps and goals on Badge Explorer and made their own plans. 16 read through the VTK plans and/or badge brochure but came up with their own plans. 8 attended a program and 17 hit up Pinterest or Google. 4 did different things with different badges. 

Next, the survey looked at the requirements for the different badges and asked for people's interpretation of them and how successful they were with the badges.  I was putting all this information into one post but it got to be way too long.  Therefore I split it into four posts. This one deals with the badges in general and then there are individual posts for Daisies, Brownies and Juniors. (note: If you are reading this post when first published, come back, the level posts are still being drafted),

If you want to read the survey, here is a link.   There is no reason to reply, I've got the data I need and do not plan to continue to monitor is. 

Reader Comments

One thing I hate with any survey is getting through with it, having answered all the posed questions accurately, believing that my real opinion was not expressed due to the wording of the questions.  Therefore, when I do surveys for blog posts I try to include a "say whatever you want" question.  Here are people's comments about these badges:

• We worked this badge series at a camporee with Juniors. They were bored to tears, even with the long hike. Subject matter was age-appropriate for Juniors, but so dry.
• We did Brownies Numbers in Nature badge, but I didn’t see any questions about that badge 
• Anytime a step involves making a graph, each girl should be making their to get real hands on experience and understanding for how graphs work, are most useful for sharing information and can be manipulated. Many adults are unable to properly read/understand graphs, which is an important skill. 
• I use the badge steps as a guide, the VTK for ideas and then go with the flow. Earning badges IMO is about exploring new things and finding their passions. Some girls may enjoy bird watching and collecting data, others may just be there to be with friends, get outside, etc., and both are perfect! There are no badge police, and as long as we are having fun and trying something new then I am good with it. We are brownies, this is our 3rd year together.
• I am an engineer and avoided these badges b/c I have several girls that “hate math” we finally fit in 2 towards end of year and one was a badge day camp tackled.
• I think these badges do have some items that won’t work for every group and it’s not just the math in nature ones, I think with everything, you need to see what works for your group and I don’t think you need to do things exactly as the book, but you should read it all and understand the objective of the badge so you can stay within the guidelines but making the necessary adaptations to make it work for your group.
• We took the concepts and got out some microscopes so the girls went and collected stuff outside and then looked at it under the microscope to try to find tessellation; then we gave them all small magnifying glasses and they went nuts. Figuring out how to do this one felt very school-like though.
• As a multilevel troop, we combined the spirit of the each badge but skipped all the computing - way too deep for the daisies, brownies, and the fresh juniors. 
• These are math badges, they should be doing math! I have the same issue with leaders looking past the reason for the badge with the race car badges and just making cars from kits and racing them. 
• Some of the activities seem disjointed from others, like talking about bees and switching to birds for last step. It doesn’t always make sense. Doing the math is important, but some of the Brownie activities are definitely more for third grade Brownies who have learned to multiply, so very late in the Brownie second year. 
• They tend to be too much like school and my girls said “we already did this in math at school” many times even with me modifying and changing activities to make it less school like. I think the concepts are important but there has to be a way to teach them, and point out their real world applications (which to me is where GS should really be focused, teaching where the math exists in nature or where the math has practical, real life applications), without it feeling like math class in school. And the Design With Nature badge is so poorly named, I thought we’d be doing art and instead we were doing serious hiking math. Again, stuff that’s important if you’re into backpack camping or all day hiking, but that’s a small subset of people and not what the average leader or girl would expect from that badge. 
• We live in a climate where most of our meetings have to take place indoors. This factors into our badge choices and this series seems less fun than the other outdoor ones like hiking, eco friend, outdoor art, etc. 
• I think my scouts would hate these. The math isn’t age appropriate. They’re all classroom lessons and not interactive/engaging as described in VTK. 
• They SUCK. I had such high hopes for these badges and was able to adapt them enough to make them slightly enjoyable for the girls. I have a teaching background so adapting plans in VTK has not been a problem for me in general however these badges are insane. For a regular leader, these would be incredibly intimating to execute. In addition there is little to no real life understanding for the girls to gain from the activities proposed. HORRIBLE badges. I'd love to know who developed and approved these.
• We have never used the VTK! We look at the steps and booklet suggestions and do what works for us and our girls and our area and resources. It seems that GSUSA wants Girl Scouts to be like school and has taken the fun out of many badges. And many of the retired badges should have been kept!
• Our girls aren’t interested in the math badges bc “it’s too much like school”. The are in GS to learn about nature, have new experiences, try new things, etc. Our troop started right before CoVid shutdown so we had to go virtual. Now we are making up for lost time and going out and DOING all we can. They did archery last year and loved it, we didn’t make them calculate how fast or far the arrows would fly and they figured out how to shoot an arrow.
• They learn enough math in school - I won’t be doing these badges because we prefer to learn different things in Girl Scouts and not repeat school lessons. 
• Your survey questions are very leading and are not likely to result in data that can be analyzed appropriately. It is clear that you have a preconceived opinion about which steps should be done how, and you will likely guilt some respondents into answering questions in a way that conforms to your opinions. 
• Again, I think a simple yes no is too simple so option 3- I think a little more than you describe, but it doesn't need to be school either. For many of these steps we modeled the math once as leaders, then had them work in groups where someone volunteered to be the calculator and someone checked them (with the fitbit for example). So no, not all of them could have done the calculations, but some did and they all at least were exposed to the method that drives the tech or the map etc. 
• We used a map of our GS camp (did this at day camp) and they measured the distance of two trails and topography, using our pace from earlier decided how much/long they wanted to walk- shorter but hilly climb? Or longer but flatter hike? So yes, we adapt but the point is to use some core concepts to make good choices in nature, not just to take info that's given to you uncritically. We didn't use the given sheet, but we did mark on the map the elevations and talked about the slope. All of this only took maybe 10 minutes and they worked in groups- it wasn't boring! For volume of stuff we looked on the tent packaging. We looked on the food packaging. We didn't calculate it for every individual item, but we did use that data. As leaders we have to sort of do that all the time to make sure we bring enough cars to go camping and to choose a good hike or to pack enough water. The more we realistically shift that responsibility to the girls the better in my mind.
• As a math loving woman, I know the few times I had other adult women say "we don't need this math" or "this is too hard for you" made me lose that passion especially as a tween. Even if we hate math as leaders, just being positive about it and modeling that these concepts DO get used in the things we enjoy like nature and camping and art, makes a big difference to opening girls to the concept that they should stick with it when it gets hard later in school or that doing math is just one of the many ways to be a girl. If we didn't need to STILL be fighting that stereotype maybe this badge would be something to dumb down more, but the STEM pipeline is still leaking girls and women at an atrocious speed and any little moments in their development we can make it fun or relevant to help them stick with it just a little longer to be data literate... the better imo. If your girls hate this stuff, do other badges. But mine liked it at every level. 
• They are not great 🤣 “design with nature” should be closer to outdoor art, not hiking 🤣
• The name of the badges was a turnoff for our girls - they didn't want to consider them. 
• The three (at brownie level) seem connected but also repetitive. And who has quiet enough brownies to count birds? 
• If it says “math” in the badge name, you should do math on each step to earn it.
• Daisy Math In Nature series. We were actually fortunate enough to be part of the pilot for this badge series. This was one of our Daisies favorites! I had the printed plans (brochures) and found them better and easier to work with than most of the other badges. We did most of this outside but borrowed outside materials as needed for things we did inside. All of the girls were engaged throughout either hands on or moving which was perfect for their age.
• We are now yr1 Brownies. At first I didn't look much as I thought it would mostly be a repeat, but was pleasantly surprised to see it differs so we will see how the girls vote as we plan this season.
• Most of my girls have expressed no interest in these badges. Too much like school. I would rather work some of this in as part of other badges. Calculating food for a camping trip as part of a camping badge. Looking at topographical maps and figuring out how long and how steep a trail is as part of a hiking badge. (And I think it’s nuts that the hiking and trail badges don’t have more practical information on things like this but instead are about playing games on the trail etc.) 
• We made it work, and the kids didn't hate it, but we won't be doing them anymore. 
• Honestly, my girls looked at the badges and asked why the badges were so much like school. 
• I am honestly very excited to see the level of expectations in these badges. Girls are capable of SO much more than many of the other badges/badge steps give them credit for. It is nice to see some activities that go beyond "make this craft." As an avid crafter, I love making crafts, but so many of the suggested ones seem so trite. And it is okay to ask girls to learn things (especially math!).

My Comments About Math In Nature Badges and Survey Results Overall

First one comment about asked why I did not have question on "Numbers in Nature' and the reason was that my survey was way too long already. 

If found some of the activities in VTK to be (in my opinion) too advanced for the age group.  Others were fine, but I really think that GSUSA would be more successful pushing math if they made it an integral part of doing activities, rather than having five loosely connected math-centric activities together for a badge.  Do recipe ratios in a cooking badge, use a topographical map in a hiking badge and make a barometer in a weather badge.  

My Comments About "The Spirit of the Badge"

I am not the badge police and I am not auditioning for the job.  However, I was interested to see how people were handling these badges, particularly the steps I found problematic and what people saw as required vs optional.  

Of the troops who earned the badges, only about 25% followed either VTK or the brochure pretty closely and about 16% said they reviewed one of these before making their own plans.   That tells me that the vast majority of those who led this badge didn't have a really good idea of where GSUSA was going with these badges.  "Choose a hiking trail" doesn't say anything about maps and scale.  I do think most of the step names in this badge are more descriptive than in some other badges, but I think GSUSA needs to make their material more accessible if they are going to get people to use it.  VTK takes too long to get through and leaders hate being nickeled and dimed to death for badge brochures.  

I'll admit that I was surprised at how many people did not think it was necessary to do an activity or have a discussion that was included for all three choices in a step on VTK  For example several of the steps included observing something and recording data via tally marks and the majority of people did not think the tally marks were necessary.  For a step "Graph Natural Objects" 12% did not think it was necessary to do a graph at all. Despite the step being named "Explore Tessellations" 17% of people did not think you needed to teach the meaning of "tessellation". 

In my opinion, having badges awarded for basically showing up for a meeting with theme X is fine for Daisies and Brownies, I just think GSUSA needs to re-think some of its themes.  I do think as girls get older badges should be more earned--they should denote a certain level of knowledge about a subject, or, if activity-based, indicate that certain activities have been done.  What I see is leaders going far afield of what GSUSA is trying to do, probably because they've never read GSUSA's materials.  

If you are still with me I'd love any comments you have to make about the survey or results or the badges.  You can comment on this post, or if you found your link to it on Facebook, there.